Alt 25.11.2011, 13:23   #1
Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Hallo zusammen,

Da ich plane, einen Jedi Guardian als Maincharakter zu spielen ist dieser Review genau das, was ich (und viele andere Guardians) gesucht habe. Denn bisher hat es irgendwie gefehlt. Wie spielt sich der Jedi Tank und vor allem wie schneidet er
im Vergleich zu den anderen Tankklassen ab?

Um eines vorwegzunehmen: Sein Fazit ist, dass dem Jedi Tank im Vergleich zum Soldaten Tank und Jedi Schatten Tank ein Alleinstellungsmerkmal in Bezug auf seine Tankfähigkeiten fehlt. (Soldat hat viel HP, Schatten arbeitet viel mit Schildtalenten und beide haben eine bessere Mitigation Werte)

Wenn ich mich nun in den Kopf der Entwickler hineinversetze ist dies aber nur allzu verständlich. Wenn man dem Guardian neben der Tatsache, dass er ein Jedi mit einem Lichtschwert ist, noch mehr Zucker in den A**** blasen würde, wäre keiner mehr bereit zB einen Soldat Tank zu spielen.

Alles in allem ein sehr ausführlicher und guter Bericht (Ich glaube er hat mit jedem Beta Build einen neuen Jedi Guaridan hochgelevelt, also 3 x auf Level 50.... )

Alt 25.11.2011, 13:29   #2
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

A Comprehensive Review from a RJ Level 50 Defense Guardian

Hello, I’ve been in beta for the past three builds now. I’ve levelled a Guardian up to level 50 for each and every single build. I enjoy the traditional melee tank role, my philosophy is that it is better to constantly work at a class and become specialized and knowledgeable in one single class rather than go all over the place and truly understand nothing in the end.

Some of you might recognize me as Asheya, a Republic Justice member, on the Darth Malak server. I had wanted to write this review last build when I had hit 50 but had to leave on a two week vacation, and by the time I returned the build already drew to a close. Instead of posting an outdated review, I levelled up to 50 once more, spent over a week at max level testing things in PVE, PVP, and even the Eternity Vault operation. I sincerely believe a proper review requires a large amount of effort invested by the reviewer, and I believe I have done my due diligence now.

Therefore I’ll be sharing my various experiences from levelling yet another level 50 Guardian this build. What you’ll find in this review will not only encompass feelings on game play mechanics, but also crafting, companions, and mundane things like moddable gear itemization, visual customization, and even enemy NPC strength.

There won't be any TLDR, it's way too difficult to condense 16 pages worth of material that I wrote up in words into a summary. Sorry.


The Jedi Knight’s story is pretty much an action hero’s story, and it accomplishes the job very well in that aspect of things. Those seeking a deeper emotional experience will probably short-changed in that area. I honestly can’t recall ever being presented with a difficult moral choice in the class story, whereas the Trooper on Coruscant has a class story that forced you to decide whether or not you’d let a bunch of people who may very well be unwitting cyborg sleeper agents free to live their life and risk the potential of a tragic terrorist disaster, or destroy them. Hearing the people plea for their lives made it a tough choice. For the Jedi Knight it was all simply choices, do you want to do what’s morally right or be a jerk, simply because there’s no strong moral consequences with just doing the right thing.

That said though, I believe the story is still fantastic, it follows the classic story of a hero’s journey faithfully and while it doesn’t deviate much from the formula it still delivers what its intended plot successfully.

It is true that the difficulty of the NPCs do noticeably increase once you’ve hit level 30 and beyond, but I’ve never been in the position where I feel that I –can’t- progress because content is too difficult. I’ve always had the tools to get through the content. The difficulty curve levels off again by the time you’re close to level 40 and you can afford to be reckless again. I personally believe that the higher difficulty encourages people to get out of their safe zones and utility more of their abilities.

A good example is the Sith Harrower for the Jedi Knights at the start of Act 2. They’re a real beast and they will take you down if you’re using all the abilities that you’re given. I personally don’t believe that it’s wrong for developers to put in content with the expectation that you utilize all of your abilities.

I also enjoyed seeing class story bosses using more abilities. I had a good laugh and great experience when Kira’s fellow “Emperor’s Children” force slammed me into the ground immediately as the fight started and then promptly threw me around the room like a rag doll. At last I actually felt like I was a Jedi fighting against a Sith in the movies. Unfortunately I think more of the class story fights needs more flair. The early class story boss fights has been updated, but the mid to late story bosses still feels much too vanilla with too few unique abilities to wow the players and test them. The Act 3 final boss fight is still beastly. The lack of good droid parts drop really hurt progress this time in what has always been a VERY difficult fight even for seasoned players due to the clones, however being able to use your ship’s healer droid is definitely a godsend for tank oriented Guardians.

It would also be a more immersive experience to have cut scenes of the player’s ship evading weapons fire as they’re boarding enemy space stations that takes place during the course class story. One example being Act 2 where the Jedi Strike force boarding the Emperor’s Fortress.

Finally I think it’s great that Jedi Knights finally have access to traditional Jedi titles like “Master”, but we’re still missing the “Knight” or “Jedi Knight” title. “Knight of the Old Republic” is nice, but it’ll be even better if we have more traditional choices like the ones I listed before so everyone can find the titles they’re comfortable with.


Saber Throw and Dispatch

For the most part I feel that the Jedi Knight’s combat animation is extremely fluid, and the fact that nearly every move has a unique animation will be something widely praised upon by reviewers come release.

Unfortunately two important abilities share the exact same animation. Saber Throw and Dispatch. Guardians aren’t known for their crazy high DPS, but Dispatch is in my opinion our most potent ability, even more so since it effectively functions as an execute that can crit well within the 2k+ range on an enemy that’s at or less than 20% HP. It is an advantage to all Jedi Knights that Saber Throw and Dispatch shares the same animation because with so much of SWTOR combat being able to be followed simply by visuals alone thanks to the unique animations, something as dangerous as Dispatch can come as an unpleasant surprise, especially for inexperienced players who thought they got Saber Throw’ed but instead finds them at the brink of death unexpectedly.

The solution might be simple, although I’m not an expert nor do I claim to be one; A new unique animation for Dispatch. It doesn’t even have to be labour intensive. Instead of a lightsaber being thrown in a horizontal arc, make it a vertical arc instead.

Lightsaber Forms

There are two things I’d like to touch on with the Lightsaber forms. The unique standard attack animations for each forms, and how the Shii-Cho and Shien activation animation looks.

I think BioWare has shown great dedication in unique animation and polish by changing the Jedi Consular’s infamous septic tank into something more varied, and that’s just ONE single spell. I think the same amount of polish and attention should –some day- be spent on giving JK and SW an unique stance and standard attack animation for each of their lightsaber forms, especially since these forms play an even more crucial role to the class on BOTH factions than the Jedi Consular’s Project ability which only affects one faction. Is it vital? No. However this sort of attention to detail is what separates AAA blockbuster titles from the rest of the pack, and it’s a level of quality that BioWare is known for. This is something I truly hope BioWare has on their “Wall of Crazies”.

The other thing is of my own personal opinion that I’d like to indulge in sharing. I find the Soresu form’s activation animation to be very aesthetically pleasing, especially more so since its based on a ready stance that Obi-Wan Kenobi had used in the movies. It has its roots in canon. Shien and Shii-Cho activation animation pales in comparison to Soresu though. We at least know, from official Star War sources, what Shien ready stance looks likes. Shii-Cho is a bit more difficult since nothing has ever been seen on-screen, however Makashi has been seen. Perhaps it would be viable to just change Shii-Cho into Makashi and make the stance look similar to Count Dooku’s flourish? Is it not worth the effort to –some day- change the animations to follow canon as well so the game looks even more polished?

None of these are vital to the game’s success. In the end it’s just polish, polish, and more polish.

Jedi Knight & Guardian Baseline Abilities

I feel that as an AC, the Guardian has –most-, but not all of the tools needed to their job effectively. It’s not just the NPC, but even players’ damage has gone up this build. I was regularly able to obtain 2k damage medals in warzones prior to level 33 and focusing specifically in tanking mods. This is something I’d rarely accomplish in the past two builds, and often due to buffs.

That said though, this means everyone else also hits harder as well so technically we’re still on a levelled playing field but our opportunities to score more medals has increased. That is a good thing, and that is something we in the JK community shouldn’t conceal. Be vigilant at what isn’t working, but always acknowledge what works as well.

With that said, it is my own personal belief that we have way too many abilities at the moment, and while it’s still manageable now I fear the consequences this overcrowding of abilities will have in future expansions. I’ve filled up all of my action bars with something already. It just barely fit it all. What happens when an expansion or two hits and new abilities inevitably comes in? I use –every- ability at my disposal at the moment. I’m running out of room and practical keybinds.

I’ll explain my reasoning in further detail below.


Riptose is our off-GCD ability. It’s a pivotal ability as a Defense Guardian, and it’s great in PVP too. I use it all the time in PVP and PVE, but that doesn’t mean it’s useful to everyone else who also plays this class.

The problem is that requires that you’re being attacked in order to be used. That’s great in PVP since you’ll have plenty of opportunity to use it, and as a PVP oriented player I absolutely love it. However we have to also acknowledge that there are PVE oriented players who are DPSers. In a grouped environment, a DPS Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior isn’t taking damage, the tank is, hence he can’t utilize this ability while Troopers can continue to utilize their off-GCD attacks because the target has DoTs on them. It’s a real shame that PVE JK/SW DPS can’t utilize this ability simply because they can’t fulfill the requirements needed to activate it.

A potential solution can be what BioWare had recently done with Saber Ward for Guardians. Add or modify talents in both of the JK/SW’s DPS’ trees that alters the requirements to activate riptose. Each and every ability should be treat with care and kept relevant.

Opportune Strike & Pommel Strike

I personally find Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike to be a very clunky addition to the JK and SW, the same goes for the other classes who received similar mechanics. It seems like this is something firmly intended for PVE purposes, and in very situational cases at that.

Keybind and action bar space is a precious commodity, and adding two more very situational abilities to the mix that only affects PVE . People have to look ahead in the future, we can handle the plethora of abilities we have now, but how much longer can we keep up in future expansions?

That isn’t to say the idea behind Opportune Strike & Pommel Strike isn’t bad. Only a fool will refuse free additional damage, even if it’s just limited to Strong targets and below. However it feels like an impractical implementation of the idea.

If developers feels like they want to give classes more DPS in PVE environments only, isn’t it better to modify existing abilities to do extra damage only on PVE targets with the same requirements as these two abilities? Wouldn’t a great candidate be stuff like Riptose? It’d be accomplishing four things with one solution. Reduce the clutter of abilities, make things more manageable for less advanced players, allow all JK/SW AC to not neglect abilities like Riptose, and allow room for extra abilities that’ll inevitable come in future expansions.

Force Push

I have a love-hate relationship with Force Push. Have you ever seen a Jedi Guardian step to the side of an enemy ball carrier in Huttball, putting himself into the position where he can Force Push the enemy straight off the platform only to have the enemy get flung SIDEWAYS straight into his own goal instead of backwards as intended?

This happens frequently to me in PVP. Force Push isn’t BAD, but it’s VERY clunky and can be frustrating to use. It is way too random due to the way the game mechanic and lag interacts. There is also the issue of it having a slow activation time. It’s an instant, yes, but the effect isn’t immediate. There’s a travel time. Due to these flaws it’s a reliable tool to be used precisely in an advanced and surgical manner.

However it is unfair to claim Force Push is completely useless. It is still one of our arsenal to control the field, and in PVP, control is a VERY valuable commodity. A two second knockdown and a very generous knockback rolled into one is nothing to scoff at. I am in disagreement with people who claims that this ability is useless. This ability has gotten better over the last two builds, but it still has much needed tweaks with its accuracy. Force Push isn’t my first go-to tool to exert control over the battlefield, the chances of it not doing what I intended it to do is way too high but I’d rather have it than not.

From the perspective as a tank in PVE, Force Push is also valuable in that I can use it in multiple ways to my advantage when I’m fighting multiple NPCs at once. If I’m short on focus, I can Force Push an auxiliary target and immediately follow up with a Saber Throw, or in the case of fighting a single elite target I’d follow it up with a force leap for maximum focus generation. Sometimes I Force Push to buy myself some breathing room, even if it’s just 2-4 seconds at most.

So in conclusion, Force Push is a flawed but effective BLUNT tool. Mechanical flaws of the ability that makes it very random in PVP and delayed activation time makes it an unreliable tool for precise results.

Force Pull

This is an age old topic since its removal from the class two builds ago. Long time players have felt the effects of its loss in both PVP and PVE with various degrees of frustration. Are we broken as a class without it? I personally say no. Is our effectiveness noticeably diminished without it? I must answer with a definite yes.

The loss of Force Pull is unfortunate result of a controversial explanation given that JK/SW becomes unkitable in PVP.

The point of contention that I have is that there is actually another class that basically has the same abilities a JK/SW has along with extra functionality. The tank specced Vanguard/Powertech. They possess the same sets of abilities that JK/SW has. “Force Leap”, “Force Pull”, a baseline ranged unchannelled stun, a 30% speed boost after a “Force Leap”. They’re tougher and more durable than a Guardian tank and they do hit harder. While it can’t be denied that most of their potent abilities requires them to be in melee range, they still have the option of attacking with their baseline Trooper/Bounty Hunter abilities at ranged regardless. They’re versatile, durable, and most importantly much more harder to kite (I don’t believe in any classes being unkitable).

These versatile skill set remains in effect with the Vanguard and Powertech to this day, and in essence is supposed to be very thing that the development team has stated that they wanted to avoid when they removed “Force Pull”. To this day I am still confused as to how Georg’s team came to the conclusion that a melee class like the JK/SW with restrictive ranged attacks having Force Pull can be deemed too potent, while a Vanguards/Powertechs who had shared the exact same skill sets along with additional benefits of ranged and higher damage output is considered acceptable.

Force Pull is an effective, and more importantly, an ACCURATE tool to that can be used with precision in PVP. See the enemy ball carrier running for your goal? Pull them to you, no need to worry that lag and other weird game mechanics is going to send them flying forward, sideways or any other direction except BACKWARDS as you intended. Got a nasty enemy that you want to take out quick? Stand in front of an acid pool in Huttball and pull them to you then stun or snare them. See an enemy that’s dog piling your teammate? Pull him to you instead. Force Pull isn’t just a tool used offensively, it’s very much a versatile tool with just as many, if not more, defensive applications. Both JK/SW ACs benefits from this ability.

Force Pull’s worth in PVE is even more straightforward. As a Guardian Tank, I find myself in contents later in the game where enemies NPCs are spread far apart in a pull. Force Sweep’s range is much too short to hit them all. I have to use Saber Throw to hit the furthest enemy while Force Leaping to the side with the most clumped up enemies and Force Sweep the rest. It is a point of frustration that I have to resort to blowing one of my emergency buttons, my taunt, in order to range pull a group of enemy with a nearby wandering pat that I’d otherwise aggro if I Force Leap in. I don’t think it’s an effective, nor intended design for Guardian tanks to have to put one of their emergency tools on cooldown just to do something Force Pull could’ve done easily and with far less potential for error. It’s just frustrating. Does make Guardians unable to tank? No. Does it narrow our flexibility that the other two tank classes have and far less trouble with? Yes, a resounding yes.

The solution for can be a simple one. Place Force Push, and Force Pull on the same cooldown. We already know that a “Force Pull” and “Force Leap” mechanic is deemed acceptable since Vanguard/Powertech tanks can do the exact same thing and still have the bonus of being ranged and higher damage output. The only other conclusion that I can come to is BioWare doesn’t like the idea of the level of control JK/SW have pushing and pulling people around and that is something I agree is too much. Control is everything in PvP. A shared cooldown though eliminates the issue of having too much control while providing more flexibility and options to JK/SW.

Cyclone Strike

Underpowered focus sink. The new changes to Combat Focus makes it so that I can use it twice in a pinch and interrupt a bunch of people trying to plant bombs or capture a turret quickly. There’s really little other practical purposes for this ability in PVP that I ever recall using it. I’m a humble man though, and I welcome and advice on utilizing this ability to its maximum potential that I may have not thought of.

In PVE this ability is just as underpowered and bad. The last time I used this ability was in the Eternity Vault fighting Grahj’s add spawns. Unfortunately there were so many of the adds and Cyclone Strike’s 5 target limitation meant that I had to spam that attack after blowing Force Sweep and hoping that I’m hitting some new targets instead of the same 5 over and over again.

My own personal feeling of this ability is that it’s poorly thought out. If the damage remains as low as it is, then it really can stand to use a secondary effect, and/or the elimination of its restriction of 5 targets maximum.

A potential solution is that this ability could become our spammable high threat generation ability. It does high damage if it hits a single target, but if it hits multiple target then it spreads the maximum damage across the number of targets hit up to a maximum of 5. Then we can actually have some talents that improves it or refreshes the cooldown on another attack so we can maintain our threat generation momentum like Vanguard and Shadow tanks are capable of.

Master Strike

I actually enjoy using Master Strike. It does great damage with some sacrifice, it’s something that I’ve always had to set up in order to execute and not something I do out of the blue.

The bug where you’re rooted to the ground and forced to play the entirety of the channelled animation but the game doesn’t register you as having activated the skill IS a very frustrating bug though, especially in PvP when you’ve gone through various set up in order to deliver the Master Strike follow through only to have it fizzle out. Windows of opportunities open and close just as quickly, once you miss it you sometimes miss the opportunity to use Master Strike again effectively and in worst case scenario, you’ve fallen behind in damage done to your enemy and the table is turned irreversibly against you.


I’ve always found Enure to be useful in PVP, it gives us a temporary extension on life to try and accomplish what it is that we’re trying to do. In PVE, however, it’s a potentially dangerous ability because of the literal way that the mechanics of the ability works.
You gain 30% of your max HP and when the time’s up it disappears. If you never got healed once during that time and still take damage while the buff is up, you’re going to find yourself suddenly dropping dead onto the ground when the ability fades. This is a bit troublesome for Guardians who don’t use healing companions. Another potentially dangerous thing is that there’s no noticeable visual indicator that you’ve popped Enure. I was tanking Grahj in Eternity Vault after our Vanguard main tank got killed and I ended up having to pop Enure after the 2nd knockback that threw all of my guild mates out of range. The problem is that the sudden 30% buffer caused healers to assume I had more HP than I actually had, despite me communicating in raid chat that I popped Enure (Things might’ve ended differently if I could make macros that announced on raid leader chat that I popped Enure) and when the ability wore off the healers and I both had a pretty nasty surprise.

The latter can’t be helped, Enure is what it is. The former, however, can be solved easily by ensuring that players at least end with a minimum of 1 HP when Enure wears off. There’s been times where with the help of Enure I killed the enemy but just as the fight ended in my victory I drop dead too because there wasn’t enough time to sit down and regenerate my HP.

Guardian Talents

Most of my commentary will be based on tanking. The role I have assumed in all three builds has been tanking, whether it be PVE or PVP. All of my gear are oriented towards maximizing +Shield, +Absorb, and +Def.

There’s two common themes for the Guardian’s Defense tree that dominates it. Focus Cost/Cooldown reduction and minor skill improvements. To put it more bluntly, it focuses on making baseline abilities more viable for tanking use either by altering it in a way so focus cost no longer becomes an issue in Soresu form .

There’s actually very few talents in the Defense tree that actually increases survivability and even less that are actually unique to the Guardian alone. Out of 20 talents in the Defense tree, 8 of them are devoted to the two themes I’ve mentioned, 6 actually deals with survivability, 3 provides damage increases, and 1 is largely PvP fodder (2/2 for 30 seconds CD reduction on Resolve, which technically falls under the two themes I listed). Only 1 ability actually deals with increased threat generation and it’s on an attack on a 1 minute CD.

Guardian/Juggernaut Tank Identity

Guardian and Juggernauts can tank. However right now my own experience in PVP, PVE, and Operations at this point has shown me that they are neither occupy neither a specialized niche, nor are they a jack-of-all –trades. We have the necessary tools to make tanking work, but we do not have the extra goodies that Vanguards and Shadows have that makes us unique, and this lack of identity also makes it harder for us to do jobs that the other two tanks can do so more easily. My own assumption on our current situation is that Guardians and Juggernauts may very well be the first class to have its tanking mechanics put in given the vanilla, and at times inadequate, state of our tanking tree while others were worked on later.

We can really can benefit from an re-examination of our tanking trees as well as having new tanking abilities and old ones removed returned to the class.

Vanguards have great mitigation, higher hit points, and more ranged options. Shadows have tremendously powerful threat generation and pack a solid punch. What would you like Guardians to be, BioWare? The other tanks have more tools than we do, not because we’re the red headed stepchild, but it’s because you guys don’t have a specific vision for us. Retail release is looming over the horizon. It’s time to figure out what makes Guardians’ tanking tree unique as well.

Threat Generation

If one were to examine the Shadow’s tanking tree, they’ll find that talents that synergizes well with each other in that it increases the overall damage and threat inflicted through the use of guaranteed crits, flat % damage and threat increases. There are also heals for 3% of maximum HP talents sprinkled inside. Endurance increases, and large amounts of flat % damage reductions. Talent that makes immediately finishes the CD on the primary threat generation ability, and a spammable high threat generation ability that also reduces enemy damage.

Vanguards also share most of the Shadow’s design to some extent. Mainly they have the ability to increase their damage output and survivability (There 6 of them at a quick glance) that ranges from flat % increase in damage reduction, to increasing shield chances across several talents, armour rating % increases, enemy damage debuff, and shield absorption % increases. They also have attacks that refresh the cooldown on their primary threat generating ability. On top of all this they also have several talents that flat out increases their damage output for various abilities.

Now back to the Guardian. Prior to this build Guardian only had two flat % damage increases, the most practical was actually Windforce a 3/3 talent that provides a 15% increase to Blade Storm The second talent is also another 3/3 talent called Pacification which is also another 15% damage increase to Force Sweep, Hilt Strike, and Cyclone Strike. Cyclone Strike, even when talented hits as hard as a normal strike. Hilt Strike is on a 1 minute cooldown, which leaves Force Sweep that benefits the most from this talent. Windforce no longer exists, it’s replaced by a free Blade Storm after a leap if you invest 2 points into it.

My own personal conclusion on this matter is that Guardian’s Defense tree is in dire need of reworking. I’ve literally pulled out all of the stops while tanking in EV to try to out threat the main tank (A fellow guild member named Jesus, a Vanguard) and in the end I found out that he didn’t even realize what I was doing until I told him of my experiment, and instead he found that he was barely holding aggro against the guild’s 2nd off tank who is also our guild leader, Chajomi and another Shadow named Lina.

I also have Scrapper Scoundrels pulling aggro from me, if I were to not devote my entire attention to the mob he was attacking and in a group environment with multiple enemy NPCs that I have to hold, this becomes a very frustrating experience.

I was sceptical over the outcry of Guardian tanks claiming they are having issues generating threat, but my experience tanking in the Eternity Vault, an Operation, has revealed to me that there is legitimacy to their claims. I myself didn’t experience that much trouble that early on until I met decent Scrapper Scoundrels, and much later on, with other very competent players in the Eternity Vault.

I believe the problem lies squarely in the way Guardian’s Defense tree is designed. There’s way too many talents devoted to reducing focus costs and cooldown times, and far too few talents that actually increases damage and threat generation. It will help that we have a threat generating ability that isn’t on a 1 minute cooldown, 15 seconds tops, AND have talents that allows its cooldown to be refreshed and available for immediate use again when criterias are met. The Shadow’s Kinetic Combat tree should be the bar of which the Guardian and Vanguard’s tanking tree are based on.

Guardians have way too many focus and cooldown reduction talents, they can be consolidated into one or two talents, freeing up space for talents that focus on increasing damage and threat output of baseline abilities instead as well as cooldown refresh procs. This also leads me too the next topic…


Compared to Shadow and Vanguards, the Guardian really doesn’t have a lot of flat % damage mitigation talents. This build Guardians’ mitigation actually took a significant hit through the nerf of Blade Barricade and the broken nature of Blade Barrier.

Ironically enough, it is the Vigilance tree that has a 4% flat damage reduction talent and a 4% Endurance increase. Guardian’s Defense tree actually only has three passive mitigation talents, all of which delivers only small amounts of mitigation at that. It falls short of the amount of mitigation talents that Vanguard and Shadows have. Both the Vanguard and Shadow also have enemy damage debuffs.

Overall Vanguards seems to occupy the highest HP point out of all the tanks. Guardians sits in the middle while Shadows takes third place. So it’s not completely doom and gloom for the Guardian tanks, we’re hurting but at least we’re not hurting –everywhere-.

Here’s the comparison in stats between my guild’s tanks.

Myself – Guardian
Defense: 18.24%
Shield %: 26.10%
Absorb: 27.17%
-Ability of note: Spammable Riptose that increases defense % by 6.

Jesus – Vanguard
Defense : 11%
Shield Chance: 35%
Absorb: 41%

Chajomi – Shadow
Defense: 15.34%
Shield Chance: 22.94%
Absorb: 24%
-Ability of note: Spammable Kinetic Ward that increases shield chance by 15%

Guardian Slash

Guardian Slash finally works as advertised and its damage is indeed hitting for what the tooltips has suggested. Even as an off-tank role, this ability provides decent debuff for an Operations group with its quick application of armour debuffs. The 15 seconds limits the amount of damage a Guardian tank can output but it ensures that they still have some bite. It also ensures that if you ever miss your Sundering Slash, you have a second chance to maintain your armour debuff. This ability went from poor to great thing to have.

Blade Barrier

This is one of the two talents that makes up the bread and butter for Guardians last build. What we lacked in mitigation talents we made up for with a damage shield similar to that of Sages/Sorcs that actually absorbed a moderate amount of incoming damage. This build, before and after the patch, Blade Barrier only absorbs an extremely small amount of damage. I tested its threshold with a guild member named Vurith, a Sentinel, last night. I’d Blade Storm and proc Blade Barrier and have it be blown away in less than second of it being up. When told, Vurith didn’t even realize the barrier was up. He was actually still using his focus builder attacks. After more testing we came up with a generous estimation of Blade Barrier being able to absorb at most ~500 points of damage. That’s about the same amount as a single slash from by me at level 50.

The simple solution is to bring the damage absorption up significantly (Sage/Sorc bubble levels may be a good starting point as baseline) AND give it the ability to scale with the tank’s stats. If mitigation talents are to remain this lackluster in the Guardian’s defense talent, then Blade Barrier is the primary candidate to make up for this glaring weakness. Contents in PVE will eventually get harder, and players in PVP will eventually acquire better gear, having this talent scale with stats will continue to keep this talent relevant.

Blade Barricade

Blade Barricade has a much lowered effectiveness this build as well, having gone from 9% down to 6%. Defense is the most inefficient tanking stats to stack, it suffers from serious diminishing return effects. My experience from Guardian tanking PVE content has given the same conclusion for this talent as I had with Blade Barrier.

If Guardian Defense talents remains as it is, then it will be prudent to increase the Defense % back up to 9%. I was taking more instances of spike damage than the Vanguard tank while fighting Garhj in the Eternity Vault. Of course the Vanguard’s stats were the most advantageous out of the guild’s three tanks due to his abundance of shield and absorption talents, it gave him a smooth incoming damage. The Shadow tank, while closely matches my stats also had Kinetic Ward, which boosted his shield chance which resulted in much smoother incoming damage as well. It’s spammable too.

Cyclonic Sweeps

Cyclonic Sweeps is one of the key talents that made Soresu form’s inherent focus cost punishment very manageable. It’s a wonderful talent even on its own due to the sheer benefits that it provides. However its secondary component, the reduction in activation time for Combat Focus is outdated. Combat Focus now instantly grants 6 focus right off the bat, it no longer trickles out focus.

What this means is that (A) Cyclonic Sweeps’ name can finally change since it really doesn’t deal with Cyclone Strike anymore with the changes to Combat Focus, (B) there’s room for another new secondary effect for this talent.

My feeling is that a talent occupying the tier that Cyclonic Sweeps is in should yield significant benefits to tanking, either in the form of better threat generation of damage mitigation. Both are something Guardian tanks are lacking.

Zen Strike

This is an underrated talent due to an underrated ability. Master Strike is an underrated ability for the amount of damage it can do and people who knows enough to set up the enemy for a Master Strike will be able to enjoy using it back to back due to lucky procs.
I found it to be a very significant boon in both PVE and PVP. However this leads me to…


Vigilance is a respectable DPS tree; it’s got even more staying power now with recent changes to Commanding Awe. However I think it has one flaw. The addition of Zen Strike has introduced a greater emphasis on utilizing Master Strike, and with the way that ability works it’d be great if players actually had a way to immobilize/stun players in order to execute the channel successfully.

That said though I am concerned over the emphasis on plethora of DoTs, especially our 31 point talent Plasma Brand. It feels like it treads into the Watchman’s territory, it doesn’t give Vigilance a unique identity of its own. Blade Storm and Overhead Slash’s DoTs are also weak. I’d still take the talents to add DoTs to them though because only a fool refuses extra damage, however the amount of damage feels so little and I don’t believe I’ve ever seen the DoTs crit. We also have enemy classes that can basically remove our DoTs through abilities like Vanish. It’s not exactly a great feeling to have your 5 focus cost Plasma Brand basically be rendered useless because the majority of its damage is DoT based.

It’s probably too late in the scheme of things to even suggest this, but I’ll bite the bullet anyways and offer my 2 cents. I think it’s important that each tree in the JK/SW ACs to have their own unique identity. Combat feels proc that grants instant damage or increases in damage, Watchman being heavily DoT based, and perhaps Vigilance can use Zen Strike as a model with it being based more on procs that refresh the cooldown of its attacks leading to more straight forward direct damage attacks rather than being DoT based.


Archaeology has two bottleneck planets in beta right now that’ll only become worst come release. Tatooine, and Hoth. The nodes are spread too few and far apart.

It’s not as bad in Tatooine because in the southern end of the map there’s a specific loop that you can go through, if you’re determined enough, to collect 4 nodes. However that also means that specific area will be constantly farmed by multiple people come release. That’s great for PVP oriented players like me on PVP servers looking for spontaneous fights. That’s bad for you PVE oriented players who are there simply to collect resources and move on.

Hoth, on the other hand, is even more massive with very few speeder points in each quadrant of the map. The sparse placement of the Archaeology nodes doesn’t even accomplish the goal of encouraging PVP.

I strongly recommend more Archaeology nodes being sprinkled all over Tatooine and Hoth and grouped more closely together so there’s never ever ONE single place that’s the only place to efficiently harvest nodes from.

Visual Appearance & Personal Customization Selection

This is a serious sore spot for me out of my entire experience this build. I went from level 1 to 50 with all my gear being nothing more than a bath robe and… A DAMN HOOD. There’s just way too many hoods out there. I get it. BioWare designers have a thing for hoods, but this is a MMO filled with players of different tastes. Why does all the moddable gear that we come across, commendation gear, and even PVP gear has to have hoods? I can’t escape the hoods at all. Everywhere I go I find myself stuck with hoods. My character has had a hood for so long that I almost forgot what hair colour and hair style it has.

Choices, BioWare, Choices. I find it disturbing that moddable gear, a gateway to player freedom in customization is something that’s deemed to be trickled down with instead of giving players choices from the start.

The mod system this build is great. The selection of moddable gear and its visual variety however remains frustratingly narrow and small. It’s really just not fun. For pity sakes, give those of us who don’t enjoy hoods some selections of our own.

A potential solution is giving players the option of raising and lowering hoods. I know that is a possibility as of the latest patch. People who view the Rakata gear will find chest armour with hoods having its hood replaced with helmets. All we need now is an option for players to toggle the hoods on and off. I also felt that some of the helmet and hoods my companion wore weren’t very aesthetically pleasing. It’d be great if we can turn them off as well. Being able to see our character and companion’s entire face and hair is a big thing for some. Is there any reasonable explanation to deny such harmless visual aesthetic choice?

I also found the ability to mod all the gears that I came across with two builds ago to be the most enjoyable version of gear customization.

Hilt Strike

Hilt Strike is a great stun, anything that does nice damage and CCs a target at the same time is a great thing. That said though there are two major flaws to this ability in PVP and PVE respectively.

The first problem in PVP, and to a much lesser extent in PVE, is that this ability, a stun, is not off GCD. Meaning that you're not able to react immediately to a situation that requires a stun if you had taken any single action prior. This diminishes its effectiveness, but not by much. It'd be nice if this ability was taken off the GCD, but it's not the end of the world if it isn't.

The second problem is in regards to this ability in PVE. Having the Guardian's threat generating ability on a stun, and at a 1 minute cooldown stun at that isn't a very practical thing to do. This ability isn't a candidate to be refreshed for immediate use from a proc like the Vanguard's Stockstrike and the Shadow's Project because it -stuns-. If it refreshed it'd make this ability way too overpowered in PVP.

My suggestion is to take Hilt Strike off the GCD and remove the threat generation modified and perhaps put it onto Cyclone Strike, or an even better candidate would be Guardian Slash. In fact, Guardian Slash would likely be the best candidate. Just because Guardian Slash's cooldown is refreshed from a proc, its hefty cost of 4 focus will keep it form becoming spammable in PVP. Yet in PVE tanks can have the foresight to build up enough focus ahead of time to accommodate for a refreshed Guardian Slash. It may be prudent to also give Cyclone Slash a threat generation modifier as well regardless as mentioned in its own section.
Alt 25.11.2011, 18:47   #3
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Du weißt es vielleicht nicht, aber das hier ist das deutsche Forum. Echt jetzt.
Alt 27.11.2011, 02:32   #4
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Falls Du Probleme mit der Sprache hast, kann ich Dir sicherlich an der ein oder anderen Stelle helfen.
Alt 29.11.2011, 00:35   #5
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Es wär schön gewesen, wenn du das ins Spoilerforum gepostet hättest oder wenigstens vor dem dicksten aller Spoiler, den ich ich jemals erlebt habe, gewarnt hättest...
Alt 29.11.2011, 01:05   #6
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Naja...du willst mir doch nicht sagen, dass Dir das nach den 20 min aufgefallen ist, nachdem Du diesen riesigen Batzen englischen Text gelesen hast?

Das in einem "Review" gespoilert wird, ist doch selbstredend, oder etwa nicht?
Alt 30.11.2011, 00:25   #7
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Zitat von EvilGerman
Du weißt es vielleicht nicht, aber das hier ist das deutsche Forum. Echt jetzt.
du weisst es vielleicht nicht, aber die meisten hier können das ohne probleme lesen und sind dankbar, wenn sowas hier im forum gepostet wird. echt jetzt.
Alt 30.11.2011, 11:46   #8
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Öhem ich glaube der Guide Schreiber hat seine Werte ohne Soresu Form aufgeschrieben. Mein JK-Guardian liegt bei ~50% reduktion in Soresu Form. Ich schau nochmal nach wenn die Server wieder da sind und falls der noch vorhanden ist, da ich den auf nem Server erstellt habe der für das Test WE kam.
Alt 30.11.2011, 13:52   #9
AW: Jedi Guardian Review eines englischen Testers

Ich habe am Wochenende einen Hüter Tank gespielt und mich bis dato noch nicht mit den anderen Tanks auseinandergesetzt. Nun habe ich mal die Talente und Bäume vom Frontkämpfer näher unters Auge genommen.

Also momentan sieht es wohl so aus, dass der Jedi ein spiky Tank ist und der Frontkämpfer der smooth Tank, also der bessere Tank wenn man es den Heilern erleichtern will.

Beide Tanks haben eine defensive Haltung die gleiche Werte liefert.

Ich kenne mich noch nicht mit dem Theroycrafting von TOR aus, also ich weiß nicht wie die Angriffe gewürfelt werden und wie Rüstung und flat Absorb kombiniert werden. Im Char fenster ist das zwar alles additiv, aber es gab schon oft MMOs wo die Charanzeige nicht ganz korrekt war.

Deswegen gehe ich nun mal von anderen MMOs bzgl der Berechnung aus:

Der Jedi kann in seinem Talentbaum skillen:
Dust Storm - 5% Anti Hit
Guard Stance - 6% Avoidence
Blade Barricade - 6% Avoidence
Shiled Specialisation - 4% Schildchance
Blade Barrier - kleines Schadensschild
Inner Peace - 4% Schadensabsorb

Aus den Nebenbäumen gibt es keine passiven Werte zu skillen.

Der Frontkämpfer in seinem Talentbaum:
Static Field - 4% weniger Schaden vom Gegner
Rebraced Armor - 16% Rüstung
Shield Cycler - 2% Schildchance
Ion Shield - 2% Schadensabsorb
Ceramic Plating - 6% Schadensabsorb
Counter Attack - 10% Schildchance

Power Armor - 2% Schadensreduktion
Soldiers Endurance - 3% Ausdauer

Damit hat der Jedi:
6% Avoidence + 6% Avoidence + 5% Anti Hit = 17% Avoidence
4% Schildchance
4% Schadensreduktion
kleines Schild

4% weniger Schaden + 2% Absorb + 6% Absorb + 2% Absorb = 14% Absorb
16% Rüstung
10% Schildchance
3% Ausdauer

Der Frontkämpfer bekommt weniger Schaden pro Treffer und blockt mehr, dafür bekommt der Jedi allgemein weniger Treffer, aber höhere Spitzen. Den Schatten habe ich mir noch nicht angeguckt.



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